Today I had an interesting conversation with my ex-Boss and good friend.���ѡA�ڦ��@�Ӧ��쪺��ͻP�ڪ��e����A�n�B�͡C He asked me to summarize the current state of Java world these days as he was busy with databases and scientific computing.�L�ݧڭn�`�����{��Java���@�ɡA�o�ǤѥL����P�ƾڮw�M��ǭp��C Here is my short take on it.�o�̬O�ڪ�²�u�Ĩ�C

Ruby has become a cult like Apple.���_�ۤw�����@�Ө��в�´�A�pī�G�C

PHP guys think they are winning over Java. PHP���y��{���L�̬OĹ�o�W�LJava���C

Java guys are busy writing tons of frameworks. Java���å볣�b����g�@�����ج[�C I think some clear thoughts are missing.�ڻ{���@�ǩ�T����Q�M��踪�C

JSF is a good attempt to solve MVC 2 problems with Struts and other Web frameworks. jsf�O�@�ӫܦn�����աA�H�ѨM���D��MVC 2�PStruts�M�䥦Web�ج[�C

JSF is very verbose to code fast without an IDE. jsf�O�D�`�ԲӪ��N�X�ֳt�L�@��IDE �C

Sun Java Studio Creator is a good IDE. Sun Java Studio Creator�n��O�@�ӫܦn��IDE �C JSF is the future, with Ajax integration (yet to be built) and after lots of enhancements to core functionalities. jsf�O���ӡA�PAjax����X�]�|�����ء^��A�j�q���W�j�֤ߥ\��C

However it doesn't play well with JSP.���L���S���o���A�H�Υ�JSP �C So I am sticking with JSP for now.�ҥH�ڰ���JSP�{�b�C It gives me everything I need.�����F�ڤ@���A�ڻݭn�C

Architecturally when I look at all these IoC frameworks like Spring or PicoContainers, they don't solve the same problems we had with Service Locater pattern.�ؿv�ɡA�ڴ��ݦb�Ҧ��o�ǰ�ڶ�e�|���ج[�@�ˡA�b�K�u��picocontainers �A�L�̤��ѨM�A�P�˪����D�ڭ̤w�P�A��locater�Ҧ��C So I don't think they add much value other than providing alternatives.�]���A�ڤ��{���L�̼W�[�h�ֻ�ȥH�~����L���Ѵ��N�C

That's my short opinionated summary.�o�N�O�ڪ��u���ۥH���O���`���C

My friend replied: I think it is a good summary.�ڪ��B�ͦ^���G�ڻ{���o�O�@�ӫܦn���`���C I wonder why it has taken so long to get productive tools and frameworks in java.�ڤ����D��������Ĩ�o��[�~�Ͳ��O���u��M�ج[�bJava �C Seems that there is too much "not invented here" thinking.��G���Ӧh�������o��b�o�̡�����Q�C The proliferation of frameworks has just created camps of loyalists that make it more diffcult for developers to make good decisons about tools and design.�X�����ج[���إߪ���a�����̻{���A�ϥ���[��}�o�ӭn��o�}�ndecisons��u��M�]�p�C It looks like a mess to me.���ݰ_�ӹ��@�����u�l���ڡC

angsuman: Yes.��Angsuman �G�O���C People are out to get fame and recognition.�H�O�b��o�W�Q�M�ӻ{�C Building a new OS framework will get more name and recognition than working with an existing one.�إߤ@�ӷs���ާ@�t�ήج[�A�N�|��o��h���W�٩M�ѧO�A��u�@�P�{����1 �C I think it is a disease of OSS environments.��ı�o�o�O�@�دe�f�A�}�񷽽X�n�����ҡC The cost to start is low, so quality of most projects are low too.�����}�l�O�C�A�ҥH��q���j�h�ƶ��س��O�C�L�C Even struts guys abandoned struts to go after new shiny toys. Struts���å�A�ƦܳQ���Struts�h��A�s������A������C Unfortunately IBM or Sun failed to assume leadership role in frameworks.�i����IBM��Sun����Ӿ�_��ɧ@�Ϊ��ج[�C JCP is too liberal and allows even competing frameworks.�饻�@���ҡA�O�ӦۥѡA�ä��\�A�Ʀ��v�����ج[�C Groovy is yet another overhyped piece. Groovy�O�S�@��overhyped�@���C

angsuman: A framework is as good as the software built on top of it.��Angsuman �G�@�Ӯج[�@�˦n�n��O�إߦb���������C Companies avoid producing frameworks because frameworks doesn't pay the bills.���q�קK���ͮج[�A�]���ج[���I�k�סC So the mantle is on OSS guys!�]���A�a���O��}�񷽽X�n�󪺳å�I

That is in short the gist of the conversation.�o�O�b�u�����n�I�|�ܡC

What is your take on the current state of affairs?����O�z���e���ƺA�O�H