Today I had an interesting conversation with my ex-Boss and good friend.����A���͖ʔ����Ƃ̉�b�����̌���i�ƒ��̗ǂ��F�l�ł��B He asked me to summarize the current state of Java world these days as he was busy with databases and scientific computing.�ނɗ��܂�Java�̐��E�̌��݂̏�Ԃ�v�񂷂�ƁA�����̓�Ƀf�[�^�x�[�X�Ɣނ͉Ȋw�Z�p�v�Z�ɖZ�����B Here is my short take on it.�����Ɏ����V���[�g�ɂ��Ă���B

Ruby has become a cult like Apple.���r�[�́A�A�b�v���̂悤�ɂȂ�̃J���g���c�̂ł��B

PHP guys think they are winning over Java. PHP�̐l�ȏ�W�����̎�܂ƍl����l�����܂��B

Java guys are busy writing tons of frameworks.�������݃g���̐l���r�W�[��Ԃ�Java�t���[�����[�N�ł��B I think some clear thoughts are missing.�����‚��̖��m�ȍl�������݂��Ȃ��Ǝv���B

JSF is a good attempt to solve MVC 2 problems with Struts and other Web frameworks.�ǂ����݂�JSF��MVC��2�̖����������邽�߂ɁA���̃E�F�u�t���[�����[�NStruts�̂ł��B

JSF is very verbose to code fast without an IDE.������JSF�͔��ɏڍׂɃR�[�h�Ȃ��ł�IDE�ł��B

Sun Java Studio Creator is a good IDE.���z�̃W�����̃X�^�W�I�̑n��҂́A�ǂ���IDE�ł��B JSF is the future, with Ajax integration (yet to be built) and after lots of enhancements to core functionalities.��JSF�͏����I�ɂ́A��ajax�̓����i�܂�����܂�����\�z����j�Ƃ����ソ������̃R�A�@�\�̋��������܂��B

However it doesn't play well with JSP.���������ꂪ�Đ�����Ȃ��Ƃ悭����JSP�̂ł��B So I am sticking with JSP for now. JSP�̂悤�Ɏ��͍��̂Ƃ���t�����܂��B It gives me everything I need.���ꂪ���̂��ׂĎ����K�v�ł��B

Architecturally when I look at all these IoC frameworks like Spring or PicoContainers, they don't solve the same problems we had with Service Locater pattern.���z���Ɏ������āA������IOC�̂��ׂẴt���[�����[�N�̂悤�ȏt�܂���picocontainers �A�ނ�͂���܂��񂪁A�������Ɠ����悤�Ȗ�����������T�[�r�Xlocater�p�^�[���ł��B So I don't think they add much value other than providing alternatives.�ł�����A���͍l���Ēlj����邭�炢�̑�ֈȊO�̒l��񋟂��܂��B

That's my short opinionated summary.���ꂪ���̒Z���ƒf�I�ȓ��e��\�����܂��B

My friend replied: I think it is a good summary.���̗F�l�͂����������B �F�v�񂷂�̂��悢�Ǝv���B I wonder why it has taken so long to get productive tools and frameworks in java.�Ȃ�����R���{���[�V�����c�[���Ɛ��Y���𓾂邽�ߒ���Java�̃t���[�����[�N�ł��B Seems that there is too much "not invented here" thinking.�����ɂ͔��ɑ����݂���"���蔭���ɂ‚��Ă�"�l����ł��B The proliferation of frameworks has just created camps of loyalists that make it more diffcult for developers to make good decisons about tools and design.�̊g�U�̘g�g�݂̎x���҂��쐬�����΂���̃L�����v���s�����Ƃ�����diffcult�������Ă���decisons�ɂ‚��Ă͊J���҂̂��߂̃c�[���ƃf�U�C���ł��B It looks like a mess to me.���������̂悤�Ɍ�����B

angsuman: Yes.��Angsuman �F�͂��B People are out to get fame and recognition.�l�X�͖����𓾂�Ƃ̔F�������܂��B Building a new OS framework will get more name and recognition than working with an existing one.�VOS���r���h����t���[�����[�N�́A�d�����������Ɩ��Ƃ̔F�������1�‚ł��B I think it is a disease of OSS environments.�Ǝv�����Ƃ�����a�C��OSS�̊‹��ł��B The cost to start is low, so quality of most projects are low too.���J�n����̃R�X�g���Ⴂ�̂ŁA�قƂ�ǂ̃v���W�F�N�g�̎����Ⴂ���������܂����B Even struts guys abandoned struts to go after new shiny toys. Struts��Struts�ɍs���l���̂Ă�ꂽ��A�V���Ȍ���̊ߋ�ł��B Unfortunately IBM or Sun failed to assume leadership role in frameworks.�c�O�Ȃ���A IBM��SUN�̎w���I�������ʂ����̂Ɏ��s���܂����I�Șg�g�݂Ɖ��肵�܂��B JCP is too liberal and allows even competing frameworks.���Y�}�͂��܂�ɂ����x�����h�Ƃ̋����ɂ��A����Ƀt���[�����[�N�ł��B Groovy is yet another overhyped piece.�O���[���B�[overhyped�́A�ʂ̍�i�͂܂�����܂���B

angsuman: A framework is as good as the software built on top of it.��Angsuman �F���邽�߂̃t���[�����[�N�Ƃ��Ă͗ǂ���ɍ\�z���ꂽ�\�t�g�E�F�A�ł��B Companies avoid producing frameworks because frameworks doesn't pay the bills.��Ƃ̐��Y�I�Șg�g�݂�����邽�߁A���@�Ă̘g�g�݂͂���܂���L���ł��B So the mantle is on OSS guys!�}���g���́A OSS�̂��߁A�݂�ȁI

That is in short the gist of the conversation.����Ă���Z����b�̗v�_��������B

What is your take on the current state of affairs?�ɂ‚��āA���Ȃ��͉������̌��݂̏�Ԃł����H